Ancient Ancestral Dissociation

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Dissociation (DID/MPD), abuse, emotional wounds, etc.

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Post by Rescuer » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:19 am

student wrote:Where is this in the bible? I get dissociation, but ancestral? could you explain this to me using scripture? I do not understand.
Dissociation is a fancy medical term to describe a broken or crushed heart. The Holy Scriptures refer to the reality of the "broken heart" throughout it's pages in it's various forms. I refer to some of the Scriptural references in this section of the forum. We also see in Scripture (such as Numbers 14) that curses and the affects of sin can be passed down from generation to generation. So, there are certain spiritual realities that can be passed down--sins, curses, and dissociative identities. In Job 8, we read, "Ask the former generations and find out what their fathers learned, for we were born only yesterday and know nothing, and our days on earth are but a shadow. Will they not instruct you and tell you? Will they not bring forth words from their understanding?" In this passage, it could(this is potential among other meanings) refer to the reality of ancestral dissociation and possibility of speaking to "former generations.". The ancestral parts have much to share to assist in the healing on the one they have entered.
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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Post by Rescuer » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:02 am

Daniella, thank you for the questions.
Now is it possible for the demon to use a part of a born again christian's soul that hasn't accepted Christ till death, to be transmitted to the next generation?
When one is justified by faith alone in Christ, their spirit is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, this is referred to as regeneration.

Jesus made this clear in John 3, "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit."

The spirit nature cannot be transmitted generationally. The spirit nature goes to be with Holy God (if one is regenerate) upon death and is alive with Christ.

Your soul nature (the mind, emotions and will) needs to be "renewed."

Romans 12:2, "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Your soul nature can be broken (as seen in Scripture) and as such can be transmitted to future generations (this is a rare experience however). I know many Christians whose souls have been broken due to hellish abuse and in some cases their parts of their souls transmitted but not their spirit nature as their spirit nature is with God for eternity.
And what will happen to that part if it doesn't accept Christ later also?
Also if a part/parts of a soul of our ancestor which is in us do not accept Christ even when ministered to(it is possible, isn't it?!), then is it possible to cast that ancestral part/parts away from the 'host' like casting away demons?!
It is the spirit of a man that experiences the new birth of Christ--the Spirit gives life to the spirit. Our soul nature needs "renewal" but does not experiences the regeneration.

It is your spirit nature that experiences this reality:

Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:5-6).

Your body nor does your soul experiences this while you are on earth. Because it is your spirit nature that is able to be seated with Christ.
If during resurrection everything will be made whole, then does it mean that even the part/parts of a born again Christian that have not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour will be joined to the core person and get saved?!
Also if only a part of a person is saved and not the 'core' person, what will happen to his entire soul?
We are not saved in part. We are either saved or not saved. Remember it is your spirit nature that experiences salvation in Jesus Christ. When we ask broken parts to come to Christ we are not asking them to experience the salvation experience but the healing experience of Jesus as only the core (who has the spirit nature) can experience justification.

One with dissociation whose spirit has experience salvation goes to be with Jesus upon death irregardless if they have "parts." They are complete in Christ as Colossians 2 tells us. The parts of the soul do not need salvation they need healing. It is the spirit nature that experiences the regeneration of the Holy Spirit of God.

This is a very deep issue theologically but I'm attempting to simplfy in order to communicate the basic truths of Scripture and God's order of salvation.

Hope this helps.
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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Post by Daniella » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:33 am

Thank you Jay!:wave:

Yes, this is a deep... theological issue and i thank you for helping me understand it.

You wrote:
We are not saved in part. We are either saved or not saved. Remember it is your spirit nature that experiences salvation in Jesus Christ. When we ask broken parts to come to Christ we are not asking them to experience the salvation experience but the healing experience of Jesus as only the core (who has the spirit nature) can experience justification.
Yeah, I had confused the healing experience of the parts with salvation experience. But got it right now. So i'm wrong in thinking justification can be made even after death(i'm not talking about purgatory!). Afterall, according to that scripture 1Peter 3:19, Jesus preached unto the 'spirits'. (But can you give me more insights about that scripture?)

I remember an ancestral part of a person acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour now, while it had rejected Jesus and had worked against Him when it was in its rightful body on this earth many years ago. Now what is this part experiencing?
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and He in whom I trust

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Post by Daniella » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:48 am

Hi! Babygurl!:wave:

Babygurl wrote:
I don't know if you get saved after death. I think that instance that you mentioned where Jesus went to get the captives when he did is different and it only happened once. Now that we all know and have heard of Jesus I don't know if you can get a chance to get saved when you die.

Yeah, i was wrong. I had confused the healing experience of the parts with salvation experience. Sorry for confusing you! :embarrassed:
This is something very new to me and i'm trying to understand it as much as possible!(And Jay is teaching me as someone would with a preschooler! :smile:)
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and He in whom I trust

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Post by Rescuer » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:41 pm

Yeah, I had confused the healing experience of the parts with salvation experience. But got it right now. So i'm wrong in thinking justification can be made even after death(i'm not talking about purgatory!). Afterall, according to that scripture 1Peter 3:19, Jesus preached unto the 'spirits'. (But can you give me more insights about that scripture?)
A human cannot be justified by faith in Christ after death, at that point one is with Christ or in hell. That is why there is a urgency to call people to repent of their sins as one never knows what will happen tomorrow.

Hebrews 9:27 tells us that humans are appointed to die and then face judgment. There is no second chance.

In regards to 1 Peter 3, I believe, the apostle Peter is speaking of evil spirits not the spirits of men. As it seems to me that the spirits he was referring to were the demonic spirits that were having sexual relations with humans in Genesis 6 that were placed in prison due to their hellish sins.
I remember an ancestral part of a person acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour now, while it had rejected Jesus and had worked against Him when it was in its rightful body on this earth many years ago. Now what is this part experiencing?
An ancestral part that has an unbelieving body (and spirit) cannot truly be born again as the spirit of that deceased individual is already in hell. That part of the soul nature may not be totally aware of this. However, a part of soul nature cannot make the decision for the spirit which is already in hell (if they are truly unbelieving). Perhaps, like the thief, the core person, with the spirit, gave their life to Christ prior to dying. Ever thought about that which may explain why the ancestral part is open to Jesus??

Are you dealing with someone who has ancestral dissociation, in India?
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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Post by Daniella » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:52 am

Hi! Jay!:wave:

The Bible is really a book of hidden treasures, just unfathomable!!! :roll:
You wrote:
In regards to 1 Peter 3, I believe, the apostle Peter is speaking of evil spirits not the spirits of men. As it seems to me that the spirits he was referring to were the demonic spirits that were having sexual relations with humans in Genesis 6 that were placed in prison due to their hellish sins.
?!?!?!:|
You wrote:
Perhaps, like the thief, the core person, with the spirit, gave their life to Christ prior to dying. Ever thought about that which may explain why the ancestral part is open to Jesus??
Yeah! it is possible! I did not think in that angle!!! :embarrassed:

You wrote:
Are you dealing with someone who has ancestral dissociation, in India?
No! not in particular!
But I have heard my colleagues discuss/share about this. And at those times I used to think they are possessed and I just avoid if not them, atleast their conversations.
Hindus believe in reincarnation and so it is common for them to go to any 'powerful' charmer or godman who is 'divinely' inspired to know about their last birth or even before.
They believe that their sufferings or problems in 'this birth' are due to their sins which they committed during previous 'births'. So they go to these charmers/godmen to learn who they were and what they did during previous births. Then the godman will tell them to do some penance, prayers or give offerings to compensate for their sins of the previous births.
I remember my colleague saying(not the exact words!) that he was a prince of a small province in some previous birth and had cunningly plotted and killed someone and that is why he was suffering in this birth! He just gave me a fright! I thought he must be out of his mind. But the incredible part is others were so convinced with his experience, that they decided to visit the charmer themselves!!!
At that time i wasn't even saved!

Being around such people I thought i should learn more about this Ancestral dissociation so that i could help them atleast a little bit if God wills and don't run away from them as i used to!
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and He in whom I trust

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Post by Daniella » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:12 pm

I was just sharing about the beliefs of the Hindus and what they do!
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and He in whom I trust

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Post by dawnmisty48 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:59 pm

I am a little confused on this matter.

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Post by Rescuer » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:35 am

dawnmisty48 wrote:I am a little confused on this matter.
Hi dear friend, please PM so we can discuss this, ok?
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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ummm

Post by dawnmisty48 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:10 am

we are all here to learn

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Re: ummm

Post by Rescuer » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:25 am

dawnmisty48 wrote:we are all here to learn
:wave: Please PM me your questions as I do not want to debate this subject. Thank you for this.
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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Post by bbewithyou2 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:43 am

yes, it is true, there are people with ancestral parts, i know of some. one person has 3 but only 2 ever surface and talk. i, personally believe that they are no good for the person as they tell them information that they need not know. yes, they help the person ministering to them, but thats not always a good thing.
sometimes they can cause more harm than good. for example, this person i nkow of who has 3 of them. well, they found themwhen they went for ministry not long ago. and since one in particular has been uncovered, the person is getting thoughts about what happened and why they are there and what demons are there. i dont think this is a good idea.

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Ancestral dissociation

Post by nautical999 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:04 pm

hey there Jay I just read the yellow sticky on ancestral dissociation and have questions.
1) when the mind splits and is fragmented to future generations is this God giving this person a an opportunity later on to repent and accept Him? since God knew there heart and knew that if given the opportunity they would?
2) If they still refuse and don't come to God will that part continue to travel down the lineage until it does?
3) if this part is at this time unwilling to come to Chriost can this oart be pulled out've the core and sent back to the original so it doesn't cause more trouble in the core it's in now. ( ie. Cain in Phil)
4) If at the coming of Christ they still don't accept Christ then that part goes back to the original core and is judged right. The cores afterward that it traveled to won't at all be affected by this parts judgement?
5) I know that in my future I will be meeting with Phil and others with this and will need more information than I have. I know the Holy Spirit will direct me but I would like to be able to ponder all the possibilities before hand.
Thanks for all the help you always give.
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Re: Ancestral dissociation

Post by Rescuer » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:34 pm

nautical999 wrote:hey there Jay I just read the yellow sticky on ancestral dissociation and have questions.
1) when the mind splits and is fragmented to future generations is this God giving this person a an opportunity later on to repent and accept Him? since God knew there heart and knew that if given the opportunity they would?
2Thanks for all the help you always give.
Hi dear good friend. In Scripture see the "spirit" nature of man departing upon death to Christ or to eternal hell.

Stephen's spirit, for example, went on to an eternal state (with Jesus), upon death, as we see in Acts 6

Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

The spirit nature of man is the eternal aspect. The spirit nature is one that needs to experience regeneration.

John 3:6, "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

When one is born again their spirit nature is made alive in Christ and the Holy Spirit gives the spirit nature LIFE. This is the part that enters heaven upon death.

When a human dies, their spirit nature enters an eternal state with Christ or in hell, there will be no second chance.

Hebrews 9:27, "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment."

The ancestral broken parts of the soul that do pass on with the aid of demonic spirits need to be communicated with in the love of Jesus but their bodies that they belonged to has already died and their spirit nature has already entered an eternal state. The soul part cannot be regenerated as the spirit nature is the aspect of man that makes those eternal decisions and thus made the decision in time & space in the past.

Does this help, I hope so.
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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Post by Rescuer » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:51 pm

FYI--to all, as I have mentioned before in previous posts, this issue of ancestral dissociation is a very complex subject that needs to be deeply investigated in light of Scripture. It's interesting to note that the ancient Church Fathers nor did any of the universal Church Councils grapple with these issues of the soul in relation to the brokenness of the heart. They just didn't understand this issue clearly as it has only been in the past century that believers are understanding the reality of dissociation and it's broad mystical, theological, and cosmological implications.
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves..."

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